Trusted Dealers

[Rick Bradford]

Well, that CGC thread was locked but I didn't really see any answers, so...

The "trusted dealer" is not about cash in fact cash has little to do with one even becoming a trusted dealer. All moderators of this site have to vote for a trusted dealer to be even approved to set up shop here.

...

I offered you a spot here Rick and you know I have no personal issues with you as I have dealt with you many times in the past dealing in several hundreds of dollars.

Sure, I was offered a spot. The condition was that I pay 50 bucks a year and I declined to pay for space on a messageboard. That was the offer.

I must say, it was a nice kick in the nuts when nobody in charge even bothered to reply to my post about my scans being ripped off from eBay -- for the wiki. Then the thread was locked.

So my scans are being lifted for the benefit of the wiki but, of course, I'm not a "contributor". How does that work?

Additionally, I donated 13 scans back in February (posted them in the "Other Additions" area) and they were never added. Each of those comix still needs scans. Can't say I haven't tried...

[Visitor Q]

Rick,

What would you like me to say? You are a welcome addition and we are grateful for your offers, I'm pretty sure you know this.

What are you looking for at this point, I don't get it and you seem persistent with this discussion.

Jason

ps. I should have been clear as to why the other thread was shutdown; it was out of hand and out of line. As there may not be tons of rules to this site people should listen to ones that are asked of them. This is not a free for all or a day care. This does not apply to you, it applies to everyone.

[over40artist]

I don't see how the other thread was out of hand or out of line. It had veered off topic, maybe, but lots of threads veer off topic, either temporarily or permanently, but usually for a reason. So what / Who cares? All threads that are not stickied eventually get played out, the debate concludes, and the threads fade away, eventually into oblivion.

All you're doing, Jason, is moving the discussion from one forum to another and exposing yourself as an iron-fisted ruler. Don't get me wrong, it's your site, so you are the ruler, and you should be able to do what you want to do, even if its banning people you don't like. After all, if you don't enjoy being here, why even have the site to begin with?

After hearing your opinion on trusted dealers, Jason, I really don't think that it's a bad idea. I agree that I wouldn't want some jackass from Denver setting up a bunch of sales in an unmoderated dealer topic and ripping people off. So you set up a trusted dealer forum. Great. And if you want to charge a fee or take a commission on sales, that would be your perogative too. Ricko can either take you up on your offer or turn it down. But that said, I don't think it should prevent a veteran collector and long-time forum member like Eggs providing a reference to new opportunity for collectors to buy and sell on another web site. Especially when it is clear that the other web site is a legitimate business. That's one of the reasons a forum like this should exist, I think.

Now, if this site was dedicated to selling comix and had 100,000 members, maybe it would disturb the site owner to have links to other commercial sites. Ebay doesn't like it, and I can see why a site for selling products wouldn't want members trying to redirect their customers to a competitor. But that's not what this is about. It is all about the wiki, right? I mean, maybe you want to attract as many members as you can, build up your loyal visitors, and then eventually make some money (a pittance, really, but some money) with site advertising. But still, it's all about the wiki, right?

The wiki is great. But the forum is important, too. To your regular members, in fact, the forum is far more important today than the wiki. The wiki is mostly built now (it can--and should--still expand mightily, but the undergrounds are fairly well documented). Regulars don't come here to browse through the wiki for hour after hour, adoring the lovely scans. They come here to talk to other people who share their passion for underground comics.

And when we share our passion, we want to inform members about stuff that we think is new and exciting. Like Eggs did with the Pedigree site. I'm not sure that the topic should have been moved, since it was really just an informational post about underground comics buying and selling. The other forums in the Commercial District didn't really fit the content Eggs was posting and it wasn't about Grading Comix, either. But whatever, it got moved there. But then to have it get censored and edited and locked and all that stuff? I don't understand how the particular crime committed would warrant that.

Well, I guess I'll get off the soap box. We'll have members come and go, but if you want to build a real community here, you'll have to take into consideration the desires of the majority, not just the select few. I commend you for what you have built and how you are trying to keep it true to its origins. But it is all too easy to destroy what has taken so much effort to build.

[Visitor Q]

I appericate your opinion.

Jason

[Rick Bradford]

What would you like me to say? You are a welcome addition and we are grateful for your offers, I'm pretty sure you know this.

What are you looking for at this point, I don't get it and you seem persistent with this discussion.

Thanks, Jason, you've made it clear that being a "Trusted Dealer" is in fact all about the cash, regardless of what you tried to suggest in the quote I posted above.

What am I looking for? Are you reading my posts? You've still refused to acknowledge that wiki contributors have stolen scans from my eBay auctions for the wiki's benefit.

My own direct contributions are ignored but apparently lifting my work from elsewhere is acceptable. Contrary to popular belief, anything you can find on the internet does not belong to the people. Once I started watermarking my images no more were added without my permission to the wiki. Funny how that works.

I expect you to remove those scans.

[Visitor Q]

Rick,

I may stand corrected but I am pretty sure I contact you and offered for you to give our members a discount instead of charging you a fee to post here. I believe that was my original offer.

So far none of the trusted dealers have made any finical contributes to this site, they have only provide their time and services.

You can remove your own post, from the Wiki and as I recall none of them have your watermarks on them from my knowledge so I am not sure how you are claiming they belong to you?

The Wiki is an open source; I did not put what you claim to be "yours" there. You are free to remove what you see fit but I ask that you please don't disrupted what people have worked hard to create.

I am sorry you are unhappy here but the door is open.

Jason

ps. I ask that all other members please be patience as we are rethinking some of our site policy to best befit you as a user. Not everyone can be pleased 100% but we are doing our best to keep the peace and have some sort of order to the site.

[Comix Junky]

Rick:
Please give me till Mon.
I need time to contemplate.

[Comix Junky]

If anyone knows of a forum that allows free and open wheeling and dealing,
Please post the URL in this thread.

You are free to go there and conduct your business.

No one was promissed an "open" marketplace HERE.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not making any money on comix.
So i'm not happy with people conducting buisness on my land (so to speak).
Unless someone offers me enough money to live on, that is not gonna change.
( You can get a better deal from Zonker. Write him  @asmic-sites.org  )

Yes i know some wheeling and dealing is healthy for the "community"
So we established a "Comericial District", "Trusted Dealers", and moderators.
So I don't have to see or deal with it. (from my mansion on the hill over in the residential district)

So there WILL be rules ane restrictions.
Live with it.
Cus when i notice folks making money off me, i crack down on it.

[dr_s]

It's nice to get it done for free, but how much money is it going to cost you in terms of big sales. It's cheaper than ebay.

[Comix Junky]

OK Rick, I concede your point (about the scans).
I have removed the scans you requested.


But your other points just come down to;
You feel insulted by the name of the program "Trusted Dealers"
and/or insulted by Jason.
If it was the "In-House Dealers Program" Would you still complain?
You were offered a place in the program, and declined.
Nobody promised you or anyone else a free marketplace.
Nobody promised you or anyone else a reward for adding to the wiki,
other than the benifits of the wiki itself.

You are an adult, you can shrug-off the precieved insult.
Live with your decision not to participate in the program, or change your mind.

[Rick Bradford]

I may stand corrected but I am pretty sure I contact you and offered for you to give our members a discount instead of charging you a fee to post here. I believe that was my original offer.

Jason, I don't recall that offer but I do recall some kind of discussion (something to do with advertising, I believe) so it's possible I've just forgotten it. If that offer was made then it was some time before the Trusted Dealer program started and that's what I was referring to.

So far none of the trusted dealers have made any finical contributes to this site, they have only provide their time and services.

Well, as I said, as far as that program goes the offer to me was $50 for a year. I'm not asking for any kind of different offer now but I hope you can see why that "cash isn't a big deal" statement took me by surprise since, as far as I was told, that was the deal.

You can remove your own post, from the Wiki and as I recall none of them have your watermarks on them from my knowledge so I am not sure how you are claiming they belong to you?

Oh, come on, Jason. Have you ever seen a scam seller using a photo stolen from another seller? You know as well as I do that scans and the books depicted each have unique identifiers even without a watermark. The list I provided was only for the scans that I was certain about. I imagine there are others I can't confirm, which is fine. Shame on me for being so slow to add watermarks.

[Rick Bradford]

OK Rick, I concede your point (about the scans).
I have removed the scans you requested.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

[zonker]

Can I be of assistance?
Is there anything I can do to help this situation?

I am open to suggestions.
But the first thing that comes to mind is perhaps I could take the "Business District" off your hands,
Move it to UGcomix.info, Run it as a full service Comix Marketplace. For a small commision,  of course.
Say $1/transiction or per listing.
Any ideas?

[Visitor Q]

sigh...

No matter what you say or how you look at it and even with watermarks these images do not belong to you Rick. Either way they have been remove per your request, not much left to say about that.

I am not sure that any of the rules or the way things are sat up here need to be change as really there is only one person who has a problem with them.

Jason

[bdcues]

First off, Jason, there are at least 8 people in here that would differ with you on the number of people that have a problem here, not the least of which is Junky. And I would bet by the conspicuous lack of positive comments from many others that the number is much higher than that.
  Second, I didn't realize that you were an expert in property law but somehow, after Junky had fixed the problem with Rick you still want to have the last word. It's offensive to most and shows again the lack of concern about the welfare of those that post to yours and Junkys project.
  Zonker is trying to give the two of you an out here and your saying there is no problem. Yet Junky clearly wants nothing to do with anything besides the wiki-
"That stuff is everything.
That is the ONLY reason this forum exists.
The dealers section counts for nothing."
  Seems to me, that of the moderators, only 50cent understands the importance of the forum regarding building the wiki. Junky has started something that he wants nothing to do with major portions of and has said so many times.
  Third, it seems that both you and Junky have forgotten who is doing who a favor here. Yes, you set this up but you asked (mostly through 50cent) others to come and add to this. Junky said –
" Because posting info is what you're suposed to do. Your civic duty.
Dealer or not, "trusted" or not.
Ordinary law abiding citizens always get taken for granted"
I sent you scans to post and you said that you would do me a favor and post them. No, I was doing you a favor and sending you the scans. It is not my civic duty to add to the wiki. It is not even in the public domain, it belongs to Junky, to be used as Junky sees fit, by who Junky sees fit to use it, in the manner that Junky sees fit. And both you and Junky choose to ignore the problems here.
  The dealer program, complete with its drug reference, which seem to be all the Junky knows, is a farce. You complain you don't want sales that then you set up dealers. It's wholly unfair unless offered to all and you're never going to do that.
  Fourth, under contributors, I guess that you have to add you own name to the list if you add something because no you running this site seems to be doing it.
  I could go on but this is becoming repetitive. So, lastly, take my name off the members list as I no longer want to be a part of any of this (or, as in Ricks scans, do I have to take my name off myself). To those that have provided an interesting forum for undergrounds, I thank you. To those running this I say – Hail Caesar.