I was wondering if anyone thought it would be a good idea to add the Kennedy Guide Numbers to the Wiki? I kinda figured the core of the Wiki is based off Kennedy's Guide so I was wondering if we should add the numbers to the index page, that way it would be easy to see what numbers have not been entered. Then for the stuff that is not in Kennedy's guide we could just leave unnumbered for the meantime until we figure up something...
I always liked the number system if Kennedy's Guide myself.
Just an idea.
Jason
Sounds good to me.
So should we listed then like this?
2. Aardvark Papers (#1)
or
(2.) Aardvark Papers (#1)
or
[KGN 2.] Aardvark Papers (#1)
See Aardvark Papers is the perfect example, it is not the first comix listed in Kennedy's Guide.
Jason
I go with kGN
KGN
Ok, let me run it by the other moderators for approval.
Thanks.
Jason
Test in place...
http://headcomix.info/wiki/doku.php?id=a_titles
Jason
I like it.
Well like I said, I feel that the core project here is to have Kennedy's full guide listed in the Wiki and this is an easy way to point out the gaps.
Jason
How about JK# _
It's just my opinion, but pound signs are ugly.
It's all the same to me... Sir Real uses "TOUANC Price Guide #", I though "KGN" was short and sweet.
It's all the same but "TOUANC Price Guide #" is a bit too long IMO.
Jason
I thought JK was good since Zonker used if for UGComix.info already.
JK would be the simplest abbreviation to use.
I've been thinking about this for several years, so i got a few suggestions ready:
How about 4 diget numbers, and something as a placeholder. so the titles all line up.
So it's easy for those who don't know what the numbers mean, to ignore them.
(0002) Aardvark Papers (#1)
(0011) Ace of Spades (Crush Dice Comics Co., a Division of Comix East 1973) 0.75
(xxxx) Acid Bath Case (Kitchen Sink Press 1992) 4.95 Book
(0012) Acid Reigns
(0013) Acme #1 (Mark Hannon 1973)
How about decimal places for the titles between:
0011.00 Ace of Spades (Crush Dice Comics Co., a Division of Comix East 1973) 0.75
0011.50 Acid Bath Case (Kitchen Sink Press 1992) 4.95 Book
0012.00 Acid Reigns
0013.00 Acme #1 (Mark Hannon 1973)
Maybe we should forget JK's numbers and start from scratch?
Try to create a universal or difinative numbering system? (Dobbie Decimal System? :icon_weed:)
With plenty of gaps to fill in.
(A010) Aam-ka Jutsu 1
(A021) Aardvark Papers (#1)
(A022) Aardvark #2 (Dave Faggioli Pub. – 1971) .35
(A030) Abortion Eve (Nanny Goat Productions 1973) .50
(A040) Abyss (Abyss Publications 1970) 1.00
(A045) Abyss (Johnson Press/Ersatz Publications 1976) 1.50
(A056) Ace Comix #6 (Pratt Institute Brooklyn NY 1978)
(A060) Ace Hole Midget Detective (Apex Novelties 1974) 5.00 Portfolio
(A070) Ace of Spades (Crush Dice Comics Co., a Division of Comix East 1973) 0.75
(A080) Acid Bath Case (Kitchen Sink Press 1992) 4.95 Book
(A091) Acme #1 (Mark Hannon 1973)
(A092) Acme Comics #2 (Pratt Institute Student Council 1974)
(A093) Acme Comix #3 (Students of Pratt Institute c/o Eric Goldberg Editorial Office 1974)
(A094) Acme Comics #4 (Students of Pratt Institute Brooklyn NY 1975)
(A096) Acme Comix #6 (Students of Pratt Institute Brooklyn NY 1978)
(A101) Adults Only! #1 (Inkwell, Inc. - 1979) 2.00
(A102) Adults Only! #2 (Last Gasp, Inc. - 198?) 2.50
(A103) Adults Only! #3 (Last Gasp, Inc. - 198?) 2.50
etc...
(B011) Backman Agent of Balance #1 - Chiro Comix (Major Minor Prod. 1977)
(B012) Backman Agent of Balance #2 - Chiro Comix (Major Minor Prod.)
(B020) Backwater Babies
(B031) Bad Girl Art #1 (Comix World 1981) 2.00
(B032) Bad Girl Art #2 (Comix World 1982) 2.00
etc...
The idea of using a Kennedy number is very useful. If you are going to eBay a copy the info is there. Using a non Kennedy reference doesn't help since know one knows what is out there or what we will define as an ug in the future. If you must have a homemade numbering system, add a Kennedy number as well and maybe even a ICL notation for an item in the Illustrated check list. Arguing over JKG or KG# or JK is silly. Just flip a coin other wise it will never get done.
Ahhhhhh... I like the "JK" idea.
Jason
Quote from: Comix Junky on March 19, 2008, 07:47:12 PM
I've been thinking about this for several years, so i got a few suggestions ready:
How about 4 diget numbers, and something as a placeholder. so the titles all line up.
So it's easy for those who don't know what the numbers mean, to ignore them.
Wow, and I thought I was the only anal freak here. I was going to suggest four digits so everything would align properly thus be aesthetically pleasing.
You could add "." for issues and printings, ie 0001.2 for (2nd print) also?
Jay's guide is the only guide that has numbers, Fogel's does not. It only makes sense to add the JK numbers. The problem is this, we are constantly adding to our guide so one entry could fuck up everything that follows since we are always adding. With Jay's guide it is said and done, the numbers will never change... See what I am saying?
Jason
ps. Updated the one entry, I think it looks good. More thoughts?
Where did Kennedy get his numbers, eh? Just a sequential numbering of the list that he had. We know there are items that are missing from the Kennedy guide. Who's to say that a new numbering system that we develop won't be the next "standard" for the coming decades? Consider this fact: The Wiki is only covering a specific period of time. That means that there is a finite number of comix & related items to account for. I don't doubt that a new addition/discovery could throw everything outta whack if we don't have a system that can accommodate new entries. I suggest a most careful think of what we could do here.
That said, I'm liking CJ's thoughts on the matter. Specifically his "Doobie Decimal System" (doobie, not dobbie). If you were to ask me, I'd say to develop a key (damn, I'm getting more verbose than I had intended)...
XX-X-0000.000
XX = type (CO=comix, BK=book, TB=tabloid, MC=mini-comix?, PO=poster?, PC=postcard?, etc.)
X = Alpha designation (A, B, C...1, 2, 3 for numerics)
0000 = Sequential numbering of what we have now! This would be a break-point in time to signify the creation of the DDS. Kinda like saying B.C. & A.D. for years (301 B.C.)
.000 = Additions after the break-point. This will require more thought. Maybe make it four digits, too.
I know it looks overly complicated on the surface, but we could be setting a standard that would be used and accepted for many years.
If you were to ask me, that is.
We are losing track. Do we want to indicate that a comic is referenced in a certain guide, most notablely Kennedy (there are the Weist, Illustratrated Checklist, Malloy, or Fogel for example) or do we want our own numbering system. They are not incompatable but not the same thing. Since some of us collect and sell by the ICL or by Kennedy, it would be nice to have the K# and a yes or no for the ICL. This is a simple thing to do. If I can figure how to add to the WIKI this weekend I will add to it. (Expect a call Jason) It is easy for me to add the K# and the ICL yes/no. But I aint (because of time and sanity reasons) going to start learning new stuff to do a Dewey Decagon number in Hilbert space.
Quote from: Comix Junky on March 19, 2008, 07:47:12 PM
Try to create a universal or difinative numbering system? (Dobbie Decimal System? :icon_weed:)
With plenty of gaps to fill in.
But then you'd end up reassigning numbers all the time, wouldn't you?
This is getting hairy!
I figured I'd start adding items that are in Kennedy but missing from the Wiki. I just added 20 titles (not subpages just yet) beginning from A, so if you start seeing a lot of red, that's why.
Actually if you used Hilbert space you would have to include Kennedy numbers for parallel universes for undergrounds that don't exist in ours.
I think we should just stick to adding all the Kennedy guide numbers for now and worry about the rest later. If we can get everything listed in Jay's Guide and numbered, then we can move on from there... It was my main intent of this post.
Jason
Quote from: Sir Real on March 20, 2008, 02:38:32 PM
..."Doobie Decimal System" (doobie, not dobbie). ...
Yeah, well... Spill Chuck kept contradicting me, so i fired it (out of a cannon).
And some of my keys stick, like "" for eample.
Quote from: Rick Bradford on March 20, 2008, 03:21:34 PM
But then you'd end up reassigning numbers all the time, wouldn't you?
But i said: "With plenty of gaps to fill in." Check my exsample.
Ahhh... Yeah. So can we move forward with just the "JK" thing for now, then work our way from there? Cool?
Jason
Being that Kennedy's guide goes up to four-digit numbers, I think it would be best, as suggested somewhere above, to start the numbering at 0001, so everything lines up nicely. I also think it would look better if we were to put a decimal after JK. These are just my aesthetic observations and are neither right nor wrong.
I edited the first three entries as such, so you could see what it would look like.
Edit: Kennedy's groundlevel section just occurred to me. The numbering starts anew there. Off the top of my head, I don't know if any of those books are listed here, but if they are, or will be, that will pose a problem to our numbering system.
Many of those books are what I would term "early independents," like Cerebus, for example. Do we even want to include such items here? Then again, there are a smattering of books in the underground index that would have been better labeled as groundlevel (e.g., Chris Corona, Cole Black, Quirk, Ultra Klutz), so who knows.
Quote from: Reverend on March 22, 2008, 01:08:15 PM
Being that Kennedy's guide goes up to four-digit numbers, I think it would be best, as suggested somewhere above, to start the numbering at 0001, so everything lines up nicely. I also think it would look better if we were to put a decimal after JK. These are just my aesthetic observations and are neither right nor wrong.
I edited the first three entries as such, so you could see what it would look like.
Edit: Kennedy's groundlevel section just occurred to me. The numbering starts anew there. Off the top of my head, I don't know if any of those books are listed here, but if they are, or will be, that will pose a problem to our numbering system.
Many of those books are what I would term "early independents," like Cerebus, for example. Do we even want to include such items here? Then again, there are a smattering of books in the underground index that would have been better labeled as groundlevel (e.g., Chris Corona, Cole Black, Quirk, Ultra Klutz), so who knows.
That looks great, now get hoping and finish the rest!
Reverend... You are clear for take off. :icon_cheers:
Jason
Since JK doesn't signify printings in his guide, how about this only for listings with more than one printing: ie., Jiz = JK.1068.1 (for the 1st print), JK.1068.2 (for the 2nd print), etc...
Another suggestion is for same printings but different types, ie., Journal of Popular Culture #1 = JK.1078.A for unnumbered version, JK.1078.B for artists version Y,G,B,B, and JK.1078.C for artists version Y,P,B,R,B.
If there is one with both then it's easily read as JK.XXXX.1.B
Keep it the way it is. In the title, put down the print (1st is assumed) or the variation. If I want to eBay and use a JK number, I don't need numbers that don't exist. Also, it gets complicated for a newbie. I don't know what you are talking about when you say Artist's version YGBB and YPRB. And I gots all 3 editions.
Easier than writing each color out, just check the Kennedy...
Quote from: dr_s on March 22, 2008, 03:09:41 PM
Keep it the way it is. In the title, put down the print (1st is assumed) or the variation. If I want to eBay and use a JK number, I don't need numbers that don't exist. Also, it gets complicated for a newbie. I don't know what you are talking about when you say Artist's version YGBB and YPRB. And I gots all 3 editions.
+1
We can always alter it later if we see fit to do so.
Jason
I'm glad ye like it! :biggrin:
I'll start adding the numbers.
Edit: So, I started adding the numbers and they just didn't look right to me as part of the hypertext, so I pulled them out and put them before the titles themselves, which seems less distracting and adds more emphasis to the title, rather than the number. Before I continue, please share your thoughts.
Pefecto!
Keep Going!! :01_bounce:
Jason
Agreed, looks better without it in the hypertext.
looks good to me
Quote from: Comix Junky on March 20, 2008, 08:32:52 PM
Quote from: Rick Bradford on March 20, 2008, 03:21:34 PM
But then you'd end up reassigning numbers all the time, wouldn't you?
But i said: "With plenty of gaps to fill in." Check my exsample.
Well, sure, you can leave gaps. But how to determine how many gaps to leave? If you leave too many you'll forever have gaps in the numbering and if you leave too few you'll eventually have to either reassign some numbers or leave something out of the wiki.
(I'm not really arguing for it, but just for the sake of discussion...)
I don't see, too many gaps, as a problem.
Gaps look fine to me, it's easy to see what is not in the guide and new.
Jason
I like the gaps, for the exact reason Jason stated above—it shows what's new.
I see someone entered the guide numbers for the "All New Underground Comix" series under the As, as follows:
[JK.0044] All Girl Thrills (Print Mint, 1970) $0.50
[JK.0112] All New Underground Comix #1 - Armageddon (#1) (Last Gasp Inc., 1972) $0.50
[JK.1007] All New Underground Comix #2 - Hot Crackers (Last Gasp Eco-Funnies, 1972) $0.50
[JK.0983] All New Underground Comix #3 - High School Funnies/The Mountain (Last Gasp Eco-Funnies, 1973) $0.50
[JK.0262] All New Underground Comix #4 - Big League Laffs (Last Gasp Eco-Funnies, 1973) $0.50
[JK.2077] All New Underground Comix #5 - Two Fisted Zombies (Last Gasp Eco-Funnies, 1973) $0.50
[JK.0045] All-Night Comics #1: The 4th of July Massacre (All-Night Comics, 1982) $2.00
I included the comics before and after to show sequence. Kennedy numbers them by their subtitles, so I was wondering if we shouldn't do the same, thus omitting the numbers here. I suggest this because it shatters the flow of the numbering. I would simply remove the numbers, here, make "All New Underground Comix #x" flat text, leaving "— see x-name", which would be hypertext. I changed the first title for illustrative purposes.
I've also put the #1, in Armageddon #1, in parentheses because, technically, it's an un-numbered issue.
We've forgotten about the groundlevel comix at the back of the JK. I've started to add those and since the numbers overlap, I've made the Ground Level signified like this JKg.017 for JayKennedy"groundlevel".000 (since there is only about 200 of them we don't need 4 digits and with 3 digits + the g there is the same total of 6 spaces plus the "." is used).
I finished adding all the JK groundlevel books to the Wiki (except the Cerebus series and Swords of Cerebus, as I'm sure these are now considered independent, but if anyone thinks they should be added they can do it), I'll slowly start working on finishing Dr_S A scans now...