Big Ass #2

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

Is this issue a headache, YES.

So far I've found 4 different groups of staple placements for the 1st printing, so that doesn't help much.  I've also found paper variances between thin glossy to a notably thick glossy (probably within the same print run also, so that doesn't help much either).  Also differences in the printing quality, notice the blacks not as detailed, some nice and some just bleed to lose lots of detail on the inside front cover.
So I'm not sure what to make of it, I think there may have been at least 2 printings of the "1st print" but perhaps up to 4 or more???  Who knows on this one if it will ever be figured out...

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

To make this issue even more of a headache, I've found 4 variances of the 3rd printing of this issue.  This is what I've noticed, but I'm not sure if these are variances are from the same print run or not, but they do all have the same staple placement, yet some things stick out as being odd if they are from the same print run so those with professional printing experience can chime in...

Third print "A"
Yellow defect line under boot on right edge of front cover, no small vertical red line (red register mark) under "Eggs" Ackley, blue star around Sally Blubberbutt has not white defect.  On back cover there is a defect in the blue part of the sky giving it a look like clouds and there is not red register mark at the bottom.

Third print "B"
Yellow defect line is gone from under boot on right edge, but on some copies not cropped close to boot you can now see two smaller ones next to shoe, blue star around Sally Blubberbutt now has white defects, red register mark is now under "Eggs" Ackley.  On back sky has no white defect but now a red register mark is at bottom of page.

Third print "C" (or variant of "B"?)
Similar to "B" but the two yellow defects next to boot is fully visible and the colors differ from "B" (ie, the green in front lower right star, Snoid's hair, boots, etc.)/

Third print "D"
Notice the red in the "Bid Ass" title looks like it was done with a paint brush (I have 2 copies of this) and is not seen on the others.  On back cover red register mark is at bottom of page.

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

"B"

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

"C" (notice the 2 yellow squiggle lines next to the boot on the right are fully visible in this group.)
(Inside front cover appears similar on all, but where the book is cut varies between each so sometimes the indica is part way cut off or high on the page.  They all seem to match up though, so if it is all the same print run, then it appears that they are from the same portion of that print run to make the variances match up.)

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

"D"

[Comix Junky]

Keep in mind that sometimes covers were printed 2-up (2 to a sheet).
Maybe you saw the uncut sheet of zap 13 (Rick Griffin tribute) on ebay last year?
That might account for coppies with or without register marks.

You also need to be aware that some stichers can do a "stagger stich".
Every other book is moved about an inch, so that the stiches don't line up, but are staggered.
This is done so that a stack of books will lie flatter, fit in a box better.
On the bright side: the distance between stiches should remain constant.

Also keep in mind the only colors used are Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black.
Browns are a mixture of all 4. So just a small change in the intensity of any one
(a little too much or too little ink flow) can cause noticeable changes in the shade of brown.
This is why i don't trust JK's discriptions of Big Ass 1. With the brown and/or green pants and/or shoes.

Most of what you've pointed out looks like sloppy presswork to me.
I would like to see a close-up of the yellow mark.
I'm not sure about the blue, could be garbage in the ink or on the rollers.

I am tempted to say the red on "D" really was paint brushed on.
This is typical of relly heavy ink. It can't stay within the lines.
It's temporary sloppy presswork.

In my not-so-humble opinion, only "A" and "B" count.
Either with or without register marks.
But if the covers were printed 2-up, the register marks get explained away too.

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

Thanks for the info. Good to know about the difference in staple location and that the distance between the two should stay the same.  That's what I suspected and usually put all that have the same distance into the same group (even if they have different locations) when i initially examine a printings.  As with this one, all staple placement was the same.  Each group here had at least 2 copies the same (so I have 2 copies that have the same red paint brushed title, and that one is confusing.  I suspect the also that the white defect may be something on the rollers, would explain it but it didn't happen just once as I've got a few copies that appear the same with it so I counted it as one group.

You can see the yellow line below on the far right (I've got about a half dozen copies with the exact same mark).

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

Also, is that how it's termed 2-up when they print two covers on one sheet?  I tried to read up on 1-up and 4-up presses and it seems that when the term 1-up and 4-up is used, it refers to the number of passes through the press for the colors.  What I read online it seems that the old 1-up presses processed each sheet through adding one color at a time (so the sheet has to go through 4 times for all 4 colors).  I think this might be why you see many covers with on color off register so often, but what about when they aren't off register, is there some other way to notice if one was printed on a 1-up vs. a 4-up?  A 4-up does all 4 colors to the sheet on one pass through the press.  So it seems it would be confusing it they called it 2-up for describing printing 2 covers at a time on one sheet???

[Comix Junky]

I have not heard the term "4-up presses" before.
But i've been working in a bindry for the last 15 years.I guess the technoligy is leaving me behind.
Before that my experience is in letterpress and offset.
I have no experience with Digital printing.

The usage of 4-up (et al) that i am framiliar with is: howmany copies per sheet. (not the press)
You can print as many per sheet as you want, but the bigger the sheet, the bigger the  press you need. presses would be reffered to by their max sheet size, and/or number of colors. i.e. 9x15, 12 x 18, and up. Single color, 2 color, 4 color, etc.
Examples via google:
http://www.common.org/pdfs/conferences/speakers/prepare/4up.pdf
http://www.stamps.com/support/features/pcpostcards/templates/
http://www.alastore.ala.org/SiteSolution.taf?_sn=catalog&_pn=product_detail&_op=1797
http://kb.iu.edu/data/aetr.html
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/printer/v1r1/topic/com.ibm.printers.afpproducts/com.ibm.printers.guidetooutput/c5pu3mst35.htm
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005rFD

But then i found this page from Ryobi, a press maker.
http://www.ryobi.xpedx.com/750.html
" ...the 750 can produce 576,000 8 1/2" x 11" sheets in one eight-hour shift. (6-up? -CJ) Your neighbor's four-up press will only produce 384,000 in that same eight-hour shift.
While you are producing twelve pages in two passes, (2 sides? -CJ) he is only producing eight. Which sheet size do you feel offers the real ADVANTAGE?"

This implys to me that in digital printing, each color is counted as a page.
A 4-up press could produce: 1 four-color page, or 4 single-color pages. In the same pass?
How this could be done is a mystry to me.

Anyhow, since Digital printing didn't exist when Comix were made,
I'll stick with my pre-historic terminology.

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

This could make more sense, since I just searched 1-up and 4-up on google and these terms should be confined to that particular era.  Still would like to know if there is a way to differentiate between a 1-up and a different model by the cover?  I think if the colors are way off register and in different places  (like copies of San Francisco Comic Book #1) it may be a sign, but not sure?

[human]

They were printed on a 17-inch Davidson dualith 233 on cover stock we got from a paper reducer for 15 cents/pound in assorted lots. The cloud defect is probably a blanket smash, which was corrected with blanket restorer. They were stapled on a foot-operated saddle sticher from the 1920s as needed.  The operator simply slid the book over and nailed another staple.

All first edition Rip Off books were done this way.

Why don't you obsess about something important, like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

J. David Moriaty
founder, Rip Off Press

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

Thanks, but if I obsessed about angels on pins then who would be here to read your post?  Appreciate  the time you took to post though and the info. you provided.  Now how about the question we (or is it me) really want answered?  How do you tell the difference between a 1st and later print Freak Brothers #1 (that Bruce stated was done on the DD press) and what was the first print of Big Ass #1 (red box or white)?

Hmmm...?  So does an angel feel a prick if she dances on a pin?

By the way, welcome.  Nice to see you posting here.  Fill us up with unneeded knowledge, please... and come back often.

P.S.  Would like to hear about your adventures across Europe in the Winter with Jack Jackson on the motorcycle in '64.

[human]

You can tell the Freak Bros #1 by the tire. In the first printing there was a screen overlay on the multiple plate burns that was inadvertently omitted in the second printing. That wasn't corrected until much later. We first only printed 5000, because Hydrogen Bomb had bombed so badly.

Big Ass #1? Probably white, because the red tape used in stripping the negs would have obscured the box on the color plates, and wouldn't have been noticed until later. I'll have to look at my uncut press sheets. I threw a proof of every run into a box that somehow made it back to Austin.

Europe was in 1965. Then Jack went to SF and I got drafted into the Marine Corps, January 1966.

jdave

[50Cent #II (1st print)]

Thanks again, here's the threads on Freak Brothers:
http://headcomix.info/forum/index.php/topic,449.0.html

and Big Ass #1:
http://headcomix.info/forum/index.php/topic,636.0.html

[Comix Junky]

As it says in my sig, I've got Obsessive-Possessive Disorder.

"... on cover stock we got from a paper reducer for 15 cents/pound in assorted lots."
Translation:
The covers are printed on other printers scrap. So paper weight (thickness) or finish (gloss) is probably not a reliable tell.

"The cloud defect is probably a blanket smash, which was corrected with blanket restorer."
Translation:
The "blanket" comes in contact with, and puts the image on the sheet.
A smash would be something that would compact the rubber blanket, causing low spots that don't transfer ink to the sheet.
Blanket restorer is a solvent like chemical that can be brushed on to the low spots, and swells the rubber. But this might not be uniform and may leave it's own artifacts in the ink.
Probably didn't last through the whole pressrun. Probably not a good tell.

"They were stapled on a foot-operated saddle sticher from the 1920s as needed.  The operator simply slid the book over and nailed another staple."
Translation:
One stich at a time, positioned and held in place by hand.
Position and distance between stiches is probably not a reliable tell.

The yellow mark is actually a defect in the red pass.
Maybe another defect in the blanket?
I am not familier with the Davidson 233. But on some presses the blanket cylindar can be adjusted. Perhaps moving such a defect to the side of the shoe, then off the sheet?